Training Warriors for the 21st Century

Training Warriors for the 21st Century
Joong Do Kwan Traditional Taekwondo cross training with Kidokwan Perth

12 Aug 2008

Karate v WTF Video

The Taekwondo guys in these videos I'm seeing seem to come out strong, but aren't making a real dent into their opponents. Just look at this video - the karate guy doesn't go down even with a roundhouse straight to the neck/head. What's wrong with this picture? Anyone like to comment?



Read Dojo Rat's review of this fight at Why Taekwondo Sucks!
Read Striking Thoughts response to Dojo Rat at Taekwondo Sucks

The best follow up to this sequence of videos should be at Nat's TDA on Video: Kicks v Punches Handicap where Nat's got a sparring video where one opponent is using hands and the other using only feet. Check it out!

Colin

10 comments:

wmioch said...

When he throws that kick, he's standing on his toes. The karate guy s his head has a stronger anchor than the kick.

Colin Wee said...

He's basically using his legs like jabs. Of course it doesn't do much good. And it is more tiring doing this, so once he gets softened up a little, hey ... what chance does he have? Colin

Bob Patterson said...

I should update my response. While I'm still inclined to defend taekwondo because I like it I'm also see where D.J.R. is coming from.

After having gotten my 1st dan I'm definately seeing where the art is weak!

However, karate has a similar problem in that most styles rely too heavily on the chambered-and very slow and telegraphed!--punch.

;-)

~BCP

Colin Wee said...

Bob -

I'm way inclined to defend taekwondo - and posted this series of videos because there is great value to be had from seeing where taekwondo falters.

The chamber is definitely a big problem. But this is only a training aid, to help drill techniques up and down a line - if it is allowed to over-shadow the effectiveness of having both hands forward in combat ... then that is where people should start to look for solutions to that problem.

Thanks for the reply. Glad you're standing up for taekwondo. :-)

And welcome to the blog! :-)

Regards,

Colin

Colin Wee said...

Related posts

Kihon Kata Koma
The Reaction Hand

Nathan at TDA Training said...

Hi Colin,
I just picked up on this post (catching up), and appreciated it a lot. I don't know that it shows any more or less than my video on the relative strengths of kicking versus punching, just that both have their place. The SPORT of TKD, as all sport systems, has serious weaknesses that the karate guy can exploit, once he gets into HIS range - punching. However, as you well know, most TKD kwans (all?) were heavily influenced, to say the least, by Okinawan and Japanese karate, and, originally had the same techniques. In other words, there's not much of an advantage, stylistically from one to the other in the "pure" form.

In this example, it does show that once the WTF guy (kicker) loses some steam, his lack of mobility and speed (due to fatigue) make the puncher more willing and able to close and drill him with reverse punches. But, as you mention, the TKD kicks should have much more effect. Not sure why the guy was still standing after taking a shot to the side of the head.

All of this is academic, and only proves that it's fighters, not styles, that make fights.

Love it! Keep up the great work!

Colin Wee said...

Nat,

It is certainly true that it is the fighter and not the one style.

I'm not sure if you looked through that series of fight videos - my aim was to show how a heavy reliance on one method of fighting is detrimental when things don't go right.

Taekwondo has lots of source material directly from Okinawan/Japanese karate. But I'm not sure if I'd say it's influenced by it -- in that many modern schools are just not able to access more than a very narrow range of fighting skills.

The challenge is to dip into this source material and use it to expand the pie.

You are right. Much of this is academic. But I still think it needs to be said. Not all martial artists do as much thinking as I think they should.

:-)

Colin

markstraining.com said...

I have to agree with Nathan on this. By watching such videos, you can not say that one style is better than the other. Taekwondo and Karate are virtually the same and martial artists from these styles (and others) should be working together to learn and exchange ideas from one another.

Anyone who says that one art is better than the other is very ignorant indeed.

Anonymous said...

The TKD guy seems to be of a thinner build than Karate guy. Other than that, TKD guy you really need to use your fists. These comparison videos are usually off-set by the fighters. Cmon now.

Colin Wee said...

Taekwondo and Karate are virtually the same

I'm not sure I'd agree. The techniques are quite similar, but the method of training and the approach to sparring is very different. But yes, I agree that there are lessons to be learned.

The TKD guy seems to be of a thinner build than Karate guy. Other than that, TKD guy you really need to use your fists. These comparison videos are usually off-set by the fighters.

I'm not sure if I agree that being thinner would be a great disadvantage. I have often fought larger and heftier fighters and have won because I've been faster and more experienced than they have. As for being 'off-set' by the fighters - are you saying that it depends on the fighter? Certainly! I posted a series of videos to show some glaring problems - I was not intending them to be a detailed argument of pros and cons.

Colin